More than More Lord

23 Feb 2010 in Outpouring, prayer, revival
I was in a meeting the other day where there was altar ministry that sounded like "More Lord!!!! We aren't satisfied, we must have more!!!" It was tenacious, it was persistent, and almost militant, and I was just irritated. I wish I could tell you that I have a clear, audible word-of-the-Lord about the situation, but I don't. I do have some impressions, thoughts and questions that weigh heavy on my heart and I've got to share them.

The Lord said that He has given us everything we need for life and godliness (2 Peter 1:3) that's past tense, that we have every spiritual blessings in Christ (Ephesians 1:3) and that He will supply all our future needs according to His glory (Philippians 4:19). He also said that we are seated with Him in heavenly places (Ephesians 2:6) and are complete in Him. (Colossians 2:10).

Jesus said that if anyone asks, they will receive (Matthew 7:7). That if anyone is thirsty, ask for a drink and He will give living waters (John 7:37-39, Revelation 22:17) and that if anyone wants to come, you must believe that He really will open up His heart. (Hebrews 11:6)

Then why do we pray and minister corporately like we do? I feel like the church at large is still talking to the Lord like He's angry and withholding, that you have to arm-wrestle Him just to get a morsel. Many prayer meetings feel like we're trying to grab God and shake "it" out of Him - whatever "it" is that we're praying for.

Many people at this point would refer to the parable of the "persistent widow" in Luke 18 to contextualize this type of "We-aren't-Satisfied" prayer, but I have mixed feelings about that one too. I am convinced that the parable of the persistent widow is a contrast, not a comparison. Jesus was not comparing the Father to that unjust judge. He is not suggesting that the way that widow approached the judge is an example for the way we should approach the Father. It is not a new prayer strategy or intercession model. He's saying, "HOW DIFFERENT is our Father! Will He not bring about justice for His chosen ones?! We get to relate to Him so differently!"

Besides, the context of this parable is the question: “When will the Kingdom come?” We have one very safe prayer: Come Lord Jesus. We can pray that prayer unceasingly with boldness and confidence knowing that we are in perfect agreement with His heart when we say "Come." In this confidence and love, we can be persistent without being insolent. So why do we keep coming to God like He's the unjust judge we have to pester?

When it comes to revival prayer, for praying for the release of the manifestations of the Lord's heart in signs, wonders, healing, deliverance, outpouring of presence, love and power, it's not usually the Lord that's getting in the way, it's us. WE are the ones in the way. We could all do with a little less "send more Lord" and a little more "I receive what you've provided."

So many times I feel like we blame shift responsibility to the Lord when it's really our responsibility. We act like if He doesn't want to come, then we're not getting anything and it's all His fault. We then are "barren" because God isn't doing something, not because we are in compromise or simply not receiving or spending time with Him. It's so much easier when it's all wonderfully Calvinistically His fault.

From what I've noticed throughout history, the prayer of the revivalists isn't just asking God for more externally, no, they are asking God for help to receive internally. This is best summarized in the prayer of Evan Roberts, the Welsh revivalist, “Oh, Lord, bend us!”

We see this in the New Testament all the time. Paul didn't exhort the church of Ephesus by crying out to God for a change in the atmosphere, he spoke to the Ephesians calling them into the knowledge of Jesus. Let me illustrate with a parody of sorts, imagine if Ephesians 1 started with
"Oh God, the church in Ephesus needs more! They are not satisfied, they must have more! Now God, don't withhold yourself! Rend the heavens God, rend them over Ephesus right now God. Do what only you can do."
How weird would that have been.

Now I feel like I need to put a little disclaimer in here: I don't think that type of prayer is necessarily bad when it's in the right context, for example if you are having a time of intercession over a region. In that situation, you are agreeing with the heart of Jesus, or other believers for a spiritual shift in heavenly realms of authority, like the displacing of the Prince of Persia in the book of Daniel (Daniel 10:13-23) - but that is not the Pauline example of ministry to believers.

What Paul did in Ephesians 1, and all of his letters of exhortation to churches, and a great example of how to minister to believers even today, is to speak the truth of God to their spirits calling them into the recognition of the finished work of the cross, a full reliance on the blood of Jesus, inviting them to the place of receiving, the casting down lies and misconceptions about God, and coming into specific agreement with the plans and purposes of God.

A breakdown of Ephesians 1

1. Jesus Christ has blessed us with every spiritual blessing.
2. You are chosen by Him.
3. Because of Him, you are holy and blameless in his sight.
4. It is His pleasure and will that you walk in sonship.
5. In Him you have redemption, forgiveness, and inclusion into the mystery of God.
6. Did I say you were chosen?
7. You have been sealed by the Holy Spirit
8. You will know his hope, riches, glory and power.


I would LOVE to see more ministry-to-believers time at the altars looking more like that and less like "AHHH, we don't have enough!" I'd love to hear your thoughts too.

Blessings,

Joanna

Comments

Anonymous's picture

Great, thanks.

Wow, just discovered your page today, and I think it's great what you wrote. I was in a group time of soaking prayer last week, and feeling uncomfortable with the image that came to mind that I was grabbing God by the collar and frustratedly asking him for more help. Eventually, it turned into an image of me hugging him and thanking him for his help and comfort. This resonated with me as the better posture take, as thankfulness comes from a place of trust and faith in Him. I confess I too easily become frustrated and anxious. I ask God to help me become more filled with the attitude of gratitude. Regarding moments in a service that just don't seem to sit right with you: Have you also noticed how, at some Christian meetings, people would be willing to run over other people in order to be the first to reach the front for prayer or to get the front seats? As if they would somehow miss out on God if they were to stop to assist someone else or patiently allow that person to go first? They'll say it's a desperation for God, but isn't it also selfish? (Is it a bit like the religious leaders in the parable of the Good Samaritan?) Similarly, I dislike it when a preacher throws a free book, DVD or CD into a group of people and sees who will be the first one to scramble to catch it. Do you think God would be even more pleased if that person would then turn to another person, who wasn't able to run to the front, and give that free book to him or her? If we take the time to treat others considerately during a service, don't you think that God will have enough of Himself to share with all of us? I suspect that some of this happens because newer converts to Christianity have grown up in an individualistic North American society and they need to be taught about the sense of community and interdependence in the church. I think pastors should know better than to encourage this "me-first" attitude with their humourous games of throwing out free resources for people to catch or encouraging people to be the first to get into a prayer line, etc.
Anonymous's picture

Nice post. Some books you might like A true story

Many years ago in Toronto John Arnott wa praying for a guy named Leslie. He asked for more of God's presence and then cried out "More for Les!" without realizing what he was saying - untill everyone started laughing. Have you read 'The Shack' or 'So You Don't Want to Go to Church Anymore'? I think you'd like them. Thanks for thispost. Keep speaking your mind, be free, ask questions and be blessed!
Anonymous's picture

More re. More

"When you were born again into God's family, you were born rich." Warren Weirsbe
Anonymous's picture

I want more...of this thinking!

"It's so much easier when it's all wonderfully Calvinistically His fault." Brevity is the soul of brilliance. Excellent. First time visitor long time admirer.
Anonymous's picture

Gratefullness

Truly, as one is vigilant in gratefullness, Papa God will continue to fill us with His essence ... Enjoy this vid from Kris Vallotton & Bill Johnson: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUybZblmxLc
Anonymous's picture

More of me surrendered?

This has given me something to process. The whole, "More Lord" was just modeled to me last year and since then I have seen the people I've been praying for receive so much more. It seems so often people pray the request and then stop and there seems to lack a real filling. There is a godly hunger that cries out for more. Then there is the selfish demand that says I want more - you are not giving me enough. I think maybe if our prayer was, "I give more, God. More of myself to your Spirit to be filled. You are enough to satisfy if I give you every part of me. What am I holding back from you?" I think of the widow who was directed to get every oil jar available to be filled. As many as she brought were filled. Maybe as much as we bring to God, emptied of ourselves and our agendas, maybe that much more will be filled. I also picture Jesus though saying, "How much do you want?" Sometimes we tease our kids when they want a treat and offer them a little piece,"You want this much?" "No! We want more." As parents or teachers we enjoy seeing their hungry and desire for the gift. I think God maybe enjoys when we answer, "No, not just a piece. We will take it all." Recently we had prayer with one of our women (we work with women coming out of prostitution). She had accepted Christ but was now admitting she was only 50-50 with Jesus and was still worshiping idols. When we prayed for her, she went out in the Spirit. She came to and told us she saw Jesus appear to her in white and a bright light behind him. She only saw one eye though. She could only see one half of him. She looked to see the rest of him but all she saw was half. I asked her why, she thought that was. She answered, "I'm only giving 50%." I affirmed that Jesus was asking her, "Is this really all you want of me?" God is asking us the same question. "How much do you want?" I want more - more of you and less of me - which may mean less of the other stuff I think I need. Do I really want more of God or more of that which makes me feel satisfied? So maybe we should be asking people "How much of God do you really want? How much of yourself are you bringing to be filled today?" We probably shouldn't expect too much more than the capacity that we bring for filling. If we lay our expectation aside, however, God in his mercy is gracious to give us more.
joannareyburn's picture

Thank you!

I love the experience this woman had, it's so challenging, and the story of the widow,"As many as she brought were filled"

I think that's really the heart of my post, realizing that when we bring ourselves, He will fill us, and it's not an issue of convincing Him to.

When we hit a wall in our journey, I want to ask, "Okay, where's the wall? Have I deviated from my course, am I walking in disobedience to the Word of the Lord to me? etc." instead of attributing it to a "dark night" or "the Lord isn't answering me" when usually, honestly, it's me.

Thanks for your input, I appreciate it!
Anonymous's picture

I have to say I disagree

I have to say I disagree with this! I think when people say 'More Lord' it's rarely out of a demanding, orphan spirit and more likely to be out of a realisation that we are poor in spirit and hunger and thirst for righteousness. David cried out the same thing especially in Psalm 63 when he said his soul thirsted and body ached for God's love. We must ask for more of God, we have to position our hearts to receive it and I would say we must cry out 'More Lord!'
Anonymous's picture

Love this post.

Thanks for not just verbalizing your frustration, Joanna, but for grounding it in the Word. :) I agree... oh that we had the revelation of the fullness of who God is - and the fullness of what He's given us! I've been reading your blog for probably 8 months or so now, and just met a friend of yours here in Sudan- Andrew Hws. ;) I work with Iris Min Sudan, and he popped in for a visit - spending a couple of weeks trekking across the country with us as we ministered to street kids and beautiful people in remote villages... :) And then, we were talking, and he referred to "this friend of mine, Joanna Reyburn..." Anyway. We loved having Andrew here. :)
joannareyburn's picture

Andrew is awesome!

What a small world, Andrew is such a dear friend of mine. I'm so proud of him, and maybe a little jealous of his travels. Thanks for your note!
Anonymous's picture

divided confidence

"We could all do with a little less 'send more Lord' and a little more 'I receive what you've provided.'" I like this line. I feel like our *confidence* can falsely be in our prayers (or the way we pray) and not the work of Christ already finished. If we believe just an ounce more has to be done along with the Beloved's work to get the Father's blessing, such as pray a certain way, we will act/speak accordingly. And I think our receiving dramatically decreases, if not ceases. But I think Paul clearly teaches that faith does not work *until* you put zero confidence in the flesh and glory alone in Christ. In my experience, concerning any spiritual blessing, when I practice this, total confidence in Christ, a flow of grace just starts happening without me really understanding how. In other words, I don't put confidence in Christ AND try to do something else to turn on the spigot--trusting turns on the spigot, I find. It's so simple that it has offended my pride many times. I also find the most warfare over that practice. Seems like the enemy does whatever he can to get me to put confidence in something in me. Whenever I do, condemnation and lack follows soon after. In short, I ask because of Christ and I'm sure I'll receive because of Christ. Whenever Christ is replaced with me in any small sense, my confidence is divided and my receiving stops. I think with ministry, one guy may be screaming, but it's only because he's excited. In his heart he is only trusting in Christ and so is receiving. Another guy might be quiet, but his heart is thinking that *because* he's quiet and not foolish like everyone else, God will be more inclined to meet him, and so he doesn't receive. In all, I think it is a matter of the heart and is difficult to discern outwardly. So, I believe we must preach that none should put confidence in themselves, but only Christ's finished work, but I don't believe we must preach that people shouldn't scream a certain way. I think the issue is deeper and not understood/discerned through our five senses. However, if people did only put trust in Christ, some might scream less and others might stop using words that make it sound as though blessing is still just out of their reach.
Anonymous's picture

We are leaky people and in

We are leaky people and in various level of fullness and understanding of the Lord's work in us and around us. Thanks for being brave and share your honest thoughts. =) More of You and Less of Me...
Anonymous's picture

THANK YOU

Thank you for writing this---we've been trying to convey this to people for so long, especially those who follow the IHOP crowd all over the place...it's obnoxious and completely keeping people powerless.
Anonymous's picture

daily bread

I think it comes down to the 'spirit' of the prayers we pray in many ways, are we being faithful to ask for daily bread or impatiently demanding that the daily bread given is insufficient. It's certainly difficult to know, from a distance, what the spirit of the intercessor is really experiencing - but I agree that anyone with a public platform should be aware that their language and 'energy' will be scrutinized. In some ways I wish we continued to better employ the apostolic prayers in the midst of our ministry to one another - I think it helps keep us 'safer' in our theology.
Anonymous's picture

"More" becomes the object of worship

Joanna—humorously enough, I've been researching the life and revival meetings of Evan Roberts as of late. Can't seem to shake how God mightily used that 26 year old to turn a nation upside down. His cry? "Bend us, Lord." I'm all about praying for "fire" and "more of Jesus," however, I think sometimes we act like Pentecost never happened. You used the term, "arm-twist." Very apt, as we're trying to do two ridiculous things. First off, we try to twist God's arm to give us that which has already been obtained by grace (Christ in us, the hope of glory), and secondly, we're crying out for something to be "sent down" when such an outpouring has already occurred. I don't pray for another Pentecost. I pray for the spirit of Pentecost to grip us again. Pentecost was not about the tongues, signs, or wonders—it was about a people supernaturally dispatched to preach the Gospel (and of course, those corresponding signs would and should follow such a message). "Lord, open our eyes to what we already possess in Christ." Amazing to think about where we are... though on earth, we're, at the same time, seated with Christ in heavenly places. Thanks for sharing, Joanna. Larry
Anonymous's picture

The cross

Good post, my wife directed me to it. Indeed a lot of the things we do and say and pray lose sight of the finished work of the cross. I would just like to put some thoughts to you on the "Prince of Persia" thing you mentioned and some of the beliefs of the spiritual warfare/intercessory movement (quotes from NIV): If we have so much power and authority in warfare, why don't we just disempower them all at once and get over with it? "And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross." - Colossians 2:15 Already been done it seems. That part in the book of Daniel begs reinterpretation in light of the cross. Much teaching on spiritual warfare and intercession becomes an additional requirement for people to be able to come to faith, something we have to do to somehow make the cross or message more powerful. In fact some of it might have been born out of frustration and a feeling of powerlessness. Yet Paul said that the gospel, the message of Christ **IS** the power of God unto salvation, not your warfare or intercession: "I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile" - Romans 1:16 If you want to tear down strongholds of the mind, preach the message of the cross, there is nothing that needs to be done to make the message more powerful, but that it needs to be the message of the cross, the good news of Christ and people need to believe it. Also, do we believe it is enough? "They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony" - Revelation 12:11. The majority of Paul's prayers were for knowing him and for revelation of what Christ did: "I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints" - Ephesians 1:18 "And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God" - Ephesians 3:17-19 That is where all the power lies, in the message of the cross and how it opens the door for us to all to know the Father and his great love from the least to the greatest. Is the message of the cross really enough? Is it really all we need? Is faith really the only thing standing between us? This message brings glory to God, because it is not about how much I did to make things happen in prayer and warfare, but about what Christ has already done and his Spirit is doing in wooing the world with his amazing love and grace. God does the work, He gets the glory. In light of the above should prayer not then be focused on meeting with Him, knowing Him for ourselves (and the enlightenment of others) and allowing Him to show us where and how He wants us to fit into his plan of sharing this incredible message? To remain in Him, connected with the Head who directs the body. (I have much more to say but these are some of the reasons why my wife and I rid ourselves of all our spiritual warfare books, and have become enthralled by the message of the cross and by the Father as revealed by Jesus) Zach
Anonymous's picture

crying out for more

I totally agree with you about being full spiritually on the inside.... but what about when your prayer is for finances that don't come through, situations that don't change, and for things to change in the natural that are not in your control? I know we can pray that God will be with us, but what about crying out for doors to open in the natural, relationships to surface, etc...?
Anonymous's picture

yups

couldn't have said it better myself... I find it comical how we scream at God to reveal His love to the peaceful people lined up on the ministry lines, so they can receive more... it's personally hard for me to receive the love of God when I hear people screaming all the time for God to pour it out and lose their voices in the process ;-) I think God has a good chuckle over this as well!! I wonder the tone Jesus used when he prayed to His Father...
Anonymous's picture

Home Run Reyburn!!

Another home run Joanna! Bill Johnson just preached recently about the Fathers heart of God and how to know if you're operating out of an orphan spirit. I know when i pray "more lord". I mean that i'm just agreeing with what God is doing and wanting to do. But i fully agree with your conclusion. love.
Anonymous's picture

You're Amazing.

Joanna, wow this is awesome. I have absolutely been feeling the same way at times and wondering how holy spirit feels when we aren't thanking him for his blood and love that is enough. I've actually gotten sick to my stomachs a few times because of it and then thought about writing a blog about, then not doing it because i realized that i had no idea how to word it and what to say. Another thing that i don't agree with is people treating holy spirit like he is a game or a dart. Like, have you had someone pray for you saying More Lord and totally not be praying for you or even focused on the Lord meeting you, but it was them just wanting to see you manifest and feel anointed? Yeah! I definitely don't like that. I love the way that you worded everything!!!! Thanks for this. :)
Anonymous's picture

We NEED MORE Joanna!! :)

This really resonated with me...God has given us everything to live righteously before him, but I think we make it out to be he hasn't, so it's easier for us to continue living our pitiful lives, thinking that it's just our lot till he shows up! Another prayer that bugs me just as much is "Come Holy Spirit"...did he just leave or something...? :) I have lots of thoughts, but writing isn't my strong point. Thanks for posting, we really need to start living out of what Jesus has given us rather than what we THINK we lack!
Anonymous's picture

I don't know how much I

I don't know how much I agree with you on this one... Of course I don't believe that we should scream out to God for more and act like it's His fault that we're not receiving, but I really think the whole meaning of 'more Lord' depends on how you're asking. I know that during the awakening meetings, the people on stage say that a lot, but I think that is just their way of posturing themselves before God. When I say. 'more Lord', it's a loaded request... I'm saying, God I love You so much and I want to know you so much more, so here I am, ready to receive and experience all you have for me... So, I kinda agree with you and kinda don't....
joannareyburn's picture

Yep, I agree. I love saying

Yep, I agree. I love saying "More Lord" when I am drinking deeply of His presence, in a quiet voice of receiving - it's like saying "yes Lord, I receive." Lots of people say that, whether it's at IHOP's Awakening meetings, or at Bethel Church, Toronto Airport or Morningstar. "Yes Lord, I receive. More Lord" Did Wimber start that one? Either way, it's always really good. But that's not what I'm talking about.

What I'm talking about is the militant, insistence that sounds more like "WE MUST HAVE MORE OF YOU GOD, THIS IS NOT ENOUGH!!!" What that feels like to me is "You are not enough Lord. The veil that was your flesh that was torn that we might have access to Your presence isn't enough. I am not able to receive without You doing even more now, in this moment, in this meeting." And is that really ever true?

But the bigger question I am posing is, "What does ministry to believers look like Biblically?" And that's what I'm looking into.

Blessings
Anonymous's picture

Changed my mind

So, my initial comment needs to be tweaked a little - those were my thoughts last night but they've changed today! I was driving to school today and i was praying like I usually do, and as I prayed, I realized that my prayers really were 'more Lord' prayers. God has truly blessed me in so many ways, but, in my human nature, I tend to ignore those & demand things from Him based on what I've seen in other people's lives. Well, as I was letting my demands known to God, I truly felt convicted & this post came to mind(must be the Holy Spirit)! All of sudden, all the complaints and demands I had didn't seem so relevant anymore - I realized that God has given me so much, but I refuse to receive because I don't like the way He is giving it to me. So, I agree with you - a little less 'more God' and a little more 'thanks God, I receive it!' By the way, I love the way you write!
Anonymous's picture

Militant?

Militant? Then you must've not heard the set the other morning when we were chanting Humanistic, Narcissitic,self obsessed Idolatry!!! That's a blog post all in it's self!!
joannareyburn's picture

I just wanna say that the

I just wanna say that the back of yo' head looks ri-di-cu-lus.
Anonymous's picture

excellent thoughts

I was impressed by your article. it resonated with me on a number of levels. sometimes all we need is strong drink of the Truth. good theology. you can get whacked on correct doctrine (hence the whole practice of huffing your Bible, as taught by Crowder and Dunn, which I strongly recommend at times when nothing else seems to work!). it's all about the finished works of the Cross. there is a time for "More, Lord". it's when we don't quite have the revelation that there is more to His goodness, His mercy, His Grace, His Presence, than we've quite tasted. God wants us to be hungry, so that we will be satisfied with Him. but I believe God is moving you and many in the body towards a realm of deep ecstasy and mystical union as we move towards contemplating His Presence within us. less about corporate manifestation of power and more about manifesting and carrying the Presence that has already been deposited in you. that comes, I believe, through quiet meditation on the Truth and delighting in His finished works. I am coming more into this revelation as well. the difference between hiddenness and manifestation as Graham Cooke refers to it. it's the example that Jess gave us of hiding himself as he walked alongside the disciples who could not recognize Him at first after His resurrection. He talked with them at length, explaining deep truth to them, while all the while they were not perceiving who He was. it even says that Jesus wanted to go further walking with them, but they insisted that he come in and dine with them. so he did, at which point He revealed Himself to them and then disappeared. sometimes the manifestation we are crying out for comes earlier than Jesus wants to manifest because He is so enjoying giving us the strong drink of Truth that He is with us no matter what, that He never leaves us or forsakes us. He truly is our best and dearest friend and love us so, so, much. anyway, these are all very interesting thoughts you have written about. anyway, I do believe in crying out for more because it opposes the religious spirit that there is only so much of His Presence available to us. there truly is always more. which is why eternity will not be boring. but I also believe in quiet contemplation of His indwelling work and satisfaction with Him, no matter what I am presently feeling. because I want to spend eternity with the One who never left my side. LOVED this. Matthew
Anonymous's picture

Joanna, this really

Joanna, this really resonates with some thoughts and feelings I've been having lately. Realizing that He freely gives and all we need to do is open ourselves to God, put aside our junk that gets in the way and say that we receive what has been given and what He desires to give us. His love for us is SO great, and the word says that He desires to lavish his blessings on us because we are his beloved children! We are the ones that get in the way of receiving these blessings, by not allowing His spirit to be in control of our lives, and by not fully surrendering ourselves to Him. But also, let's pray and ask, "How can I do more for you Lord, for your Kingdom?" "Where can I give more of myself for you?" "Lord, let me not get in the way of an overflowing of your love from my heart to those around me." And then, we need to obey. We need to do the stuff.
Anonymous's picture

@--->------

So Jojo...cute article. I love your passion and desire for simplicity. I notice in my own life... I ask the Holy Spirit for more and to increase in my life... I ask all the time that I would be a good steward of my calling and gifting. so what I'm really asking is MORE LORD!! I believe the "More Lord" is more of a declaration...we are saying Here we are Lord, acknowledging our partnership with Him. Girl. "More Lord"---sounds real cute when someone with an english accent says it!!
Anonymous's picture

Wow! Excellent thought

Wow! Excellent thought process! I also agree that in some contexts the "more Lord" prayer is appropriate. We definitely need to be more in the mind set of "bend me, Lord and thank you for what you have already provided." Thank you for this insight!

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